|
Continued Examination of
December 23, 1921
In the District Court of the United States For the Eastern District of Michigan Southern Division.
In the matter of Universal Book Stores, Bankrupt
In Bankruptcy. No. 4946.
Testimony taken before George A. Marston, Referee, at Detroit, Michigan, December 23, 1921.
Appearances: Same as on November 23, 1921.
Albert Winslow Ryerson, recalled for further examination by Mr. Morden, testifies as follows:
Q: Mr. Ryerson, you testified in one of the examinations that it required a man of considerable experience and skill to purchase books of a high order, such as the Universal Book Stores purchased. Is that true?
A: It is true, Yes, sir.
Q: Are you an authority on occult books?
A: Why, I have got that reputation, I believe.
Q: What is the Universal Publishing Company?
A: The Universal Publishing Company? It is simply a name to get the mail orders from the sale of a book which we sold. If you will remember—
Q: I ask you if this is your signature, Mr. Ryerson?
A: Yes.
Mr. Morden: I offer that in evidence. Exhibit 1, certificate of the Universal Book Stores, doing business as the Universal Publishing Company, filed in the clerk's office, Wayne County, March 30, 1920, signed by Mr. Albert W. Ryerson, secretary. Do you know Doctor Hill's signature?
A: Yes.
Q: Is that his signature?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: And sworn to by Doctor Gordon W. Hill, President?
A: If you would like some details in regard to that, why that was: The Book Stores could not go on as the Book Stores and posing as the publisher of a book.
Q: Yes. Was there anyone else connected with the Book Stores, either as an officer or as an employee, who was competent to purchase books?
A: Mrs. Lumley, on a certain class of books, was quite expert. Mrs. Lumley Walker now; I believe she has been married since.
Q: Outside of Mrs. Lumley Walker? Was there any other employee you could trust to purchase books of a high order?
A: No, not in the highly technical books.
Q: C. Stansfeld Jones [Charles Stansfeld Jones], who has been previously mentioned in the testimony, when was he employed by the corporation?
A: I don't remember. It was some time in January. I don't know how long.
Q: 1919?
A: Yes, I think it was the early part of 1918 or 1919.
Q: Was he a book man?
A: He was an accountant and a writer. He was well-posted on occult literature.
Q: Otherwise, Mr. Jones was not a man whom the corporation could trust to go and make a purchase of a large quantity of books in occult lines was he?
A: Why, there are certain branches and details that are very intricate in this line. Mr. Jones was very competent on certain phases.
Q: Well, he had no authority to do it at that time?
A: No. Oh, no.
Q: You have previously testified that in July 1918 you and Mr. Gibson went on a book expedition east? Was that true?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you meet Aleister Crowley in New York at that time?
A: We did.
Q: Did you have any business relations with him at that time?
Mr. Wasey: What year was this?
Mr. Morden: 1918.
A: Yes, we made some arrangements to market his forthcoming issue of The Equinox.
Q: Was Mr. Gibson present at that conference with Mr. Crowley?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you pay him any money then?
A: Mr. Crowley?
Q: Yes.
A: No.
Q: When did Mr. Crowley come to Detroit?
A: I don't remember. It was some time after our visit.
Q: Would you say it would be the early part of 1919?
A: I think so.
Q: Did he come to you first?
A: No. I think he was supposed to come to me first, but I think he was met by Mr. Jones and introduced to my attorney, I think it was.
Q: How long did he stay in Detroit at that time?
A: Oh, I don't remember. Less than a month. That is my recollection.
Q: Did Mr. Crowley tell you all about The Equinox.
A: The Equinox is a series of publications.
Q: I mean this particular one.
A: Yes.
Q: Did you go around with Mr. Crowley and see several men here in the city and have meetings.
A: Why, I think, through the courtesy of Mr. Lodge [Frank T. Lodge], Mr. Crowley was entertained at the D.A.C. [Detroit Athletic Club], and we had several meetings with people more or less interested in occult philosophy.
Q: Did Mr. Crowley attempt to form a chapter of the O.T.O. at that time?
A: Yes.
Q: Did he succeed?
A: I think so. I was not invited to the meeting at which the details were worked out.
Q: Do you know where that chapter is? Where it meets?
A: I don't think the deal was ever consummated to any action. The rituals as I was informed, were handed to a certain committee at the first meeting, subsequently declined, and returned to Mr. Crowley.
Q: Do you know who the members of that committee were?
A: By hearsay only.
Q: Then you deny that you personally attended those meetings, or had anything to do with the forming of a chapter here in the city of the O.T.O.?
A: Yes. I was not present at that time.
Q: You deny that you took Mr. Crowley to those various people and told various friends of yours whom Mr. Crowley represented?
A: Why, "taking Mr. Crowley around": it is a hard way to put it! He was an author and a man of some prominence. We entertained him among our friends who were more or less interested in his line of philosophy—or what we thought might be his line of philosophy—who did not accept it entirely afterwards.
Q: Who brought you in contact with Mr. Crowley in the first place?
A: His literature. The Universal Book Stores was formed for the purpose of handling all kinds of religious literature, all over the country, or the world, with everything that was odd or out of the way. We did not specialize in any one thing, to make it sacred, but bought anything that had to it any great amount of religion. Consequently, the stores became phenomenally successful.
Q: What books written by Aleister Crowley interested you to the extent of wanting to meet him? To refresh your memory, if you care to look at a copy of The Equinox. First is a blank page and then the advertisement of the Universal Publishing Company, showing the works of Aleister Crowley, and the names. Will you tell me what books you have read?
A: I have read none of those books. Literature that—The book that particularly caught my attention to him and his philosophy was the former issue of The Equinox, of which I obtained a few copies, as they were very scarce. Q: What was the number of the one you read previous to that?
A: I did not read them. I just glanced over them. You must bear in mind this was a merchandising proposition. I did not read the books for the purpose of becoming interested in his particular cult, but as a merchandising proposition, to interest anyone who was studying occultism, and we made our store headquarters, and because he was an acknowledged leader, some supposedly large cult in England at one time formed the Society of the Golden Dawn, which was one of the most famous of its kind in the world, comprising some of the best scholars in England and some parts of Europe.
Q: What was the Golden Dawn Society?
A: It was an exclusive society in England, with such type of men as Sir Oliver Lodge who belonged.
Q: Did you invite Aleister Crowley to Detroit when you met him in New York?
A: I did.
Q: You were interested enough in Aleister Crowley to take him around to various friends that you had interested in this occult literature?
A: We were always interested in any men who came from a distance, who purported to have knowledge. Sometimes we were stung and sometimes we were not, but we always took an interest in anyone who had something new that we thought they could give us on psychological matters.
Q: Is there any other book, outside of this particular book, that you were stung on?
A: We were not stung on any particular book.
Q: Well, just answer my question: yes or no. I don't want any explanation. Well, the Spiritual Voice, was that a book?
A: No, that was a circular or bulletin.
Q: Well, I will withdraw that question. Well, he stayed here about a month the first time and then he left the city?
A: Yes.
Q: When did you enter into an agreement, or was it the corporation that entered into this agreement, or was it—Well, it must be the corporation—About what time did you enter into the agreement with Aleister Crowley to market The Equinox, Volume 3, No. 1?
A: I don't remember the dates, I think the date of the contract will show. It must be among the papers in the Book Stores.
Q: Do you remember about what time?
A: It was in the early part of 1919, if that is the year.
Q: It was subsequent to his visit here? To his first visit?
A: Yes. He had to leave hurriedly. He left the details to be threshed out subsequently.
Q: How long before he returned again, Mr. Ryerson?
A: I don't remember exactly. I think perhaps a couple of months.
Q: In the meantime, did he ship to the Universal Book Stores a manuscript covering the contents of The Equinox?
A: I think so.
Q: Was it necessary for you to go over this manuscript?
A: No. I knew in a general way that that was an occult book and the literature of that particular society, and we aimed to be headquarters for every occult society in the world, or for its literature. Q: Yet the contract called for a $4,000 investment, did it not? Yes or no.
A: It called for a $4,000 investment to get to a certain price upon the book, but they brought to us enough orders in addition to assure us of a profit. As we supposed, in this transaction enough goods had been sold to return the books on the amount of money we have invested.
Q: How many books were sold?
A: I don't know, exactly. The books will show. Mr. Jones kept a track of that record, because he had those orders between here and Siberia and Switzerland and Mexico and all over the world they were shipped.
Q: There was only about 200 books sold?
A: I might say that is correct. Although they brought $6.00 a copy, I think we invested about $1,000. We did not take this entire contract.
Q: $2,000 is the amount that Aleister Crowley got for these 1,000 volumes?
A: I don't think that is correct, yet I should have to be governed by the records.
Q: The paid notes showing the amount that Aleister Crowley received—The original amount of the contract was $4,000 and you compromised for $2,000?
A: Yes. We took half of the books and left the other half in the hands of the publishers.
Q: Now the manuscript of The Equinox, what was the purpose of Mr. Crowley shipping it to the Universal Book Store?
A: To decide upon the title page and certain advertisements which were to be contained, largely.
Q: Well then, you did go over the manuscript?
A: Oh, superficially, yes.
Q: Have you ever read the book?
A: Never have; no.
Q: You want it to go on record then, Mr. Ryerson, that you were a clever man with the purchase of occult books, that you obligated the corporation to the amount of $4,000 and yet never read the book?
A: Absolutely, because we took those orders for the books, thinking it would be a good business transaction to purchase the books. Moreover, the scope of the Book Stores was to become a distributing depot for every occult society. We had a clientele that would buy anything, regardless of the merits or demerits.
Q: You want it to appear that Aleister Crowley was a clever man?
A: Well, not necessarily. He was one of the officers of one of the most exclusive societies of its kind in the world, and he had a following as a poet that probably will go down in history as one of the best.
Q: Well then, it appears that you have read some of his literature in The Equinox?
A: Oh, just a superficial glance. No publisher reads a book completely, but just the salient points.
Q: And you considered that a $4,000 obligation for the Universal Book Stores for this Equinox was good business?
A: Yes, I did under the circumstances, because Mr. Jones came and practically managed the sale of the books for the various societies.
Q: Well, you did not know Mr. Jones very well, did you?
A: Well, we knew of him in the way of—Yes, his credentials were sufficiently good to make it a good business proposition to put a man of his ability in charge of marketing the merchandise.
Q: Did you consider Mr. Jones a man of character?
A: I did.
Q: And then you want it to appear that you followed Mr. Jones' advice?
A: Well, Mr. Jones I considered a capable man, because he knew all the intricate details of Mr. Crowley's affairs.
Q: Well now, you felt satisfied, Mr. Ryerson, that this book was going to be a good business proposition for the Universal Book Stores?
A: I did.
Q: And how many orders did they present to the store when the books were delivered to the corporation?
A: I don't remember. We had quite a number of orders.
Q: Approximately, say?
A: Well, I should think 125 copies, maybe.
Q: Well, when was the next time that Mr. Crowley came to Detroit?
A: You are referring to the third time?
Q: The second time. I have not talked about the third time.
A: Well, I think he came twice. About twice. This is following the first time.
Q: He lived at your home, didn't he, while he was here?
A: Yes, I entertained him.
Q: How long was he here the second time?
A: I think less than a month: a couple of weeks, or three weeks.
Q: At that time, the book had been printed?
A: I think so.
Q: Didn't Mr. Crowley go over the book with you?
A: Well, he occasionally picked the book up and referred to certain things and called my attention to it. We naturally had some discussion about the marketing of it.
Q: You consider that book, this Equinox Volume 3, Number 1, to be a salable piece of literature?
A: To a limited degree, yes.
Q: And yet you bought 1,000 volumes?
A: Well, we had advice and assurance that 2,000 volumes could be marketed. I became a little skeptical later and arranged to cut the amount to 1,000 volumes.
Q: Now as a matter of fact, Mr. Ryerson, did not Davie, Houghton and Doctor Hill, stockholders and practically all the directors, object to the purchase of this book?
A: No, because some of the people you have mentioned came in subsequent to the contract—a year or so later, if I recollect.
Q: Well, after the book had been in the stores, were they not disgusted with The Equinox?
A: I do not know what their personal feelings were. They became alarmed through certain criticisms from bigoted persons.
Q: Well, didn't Doctor Hill tell you, at a meeting on or about January 5, 1920, tell you that the sale of this book meant his retirement from the board of directors?
A: I don't remember. Mr. Hill had some personal disagreement with Mr. Crowley on something that was said that naturally probably prejudiced Doctor Hill to a certain extent.
Q: You mean it prejudiced Doctor Hill against the book?
A: In a measure, yes.
Q: Hoe many times did Doctor Hill meet Mr. Crowley, to your knowledge?
A: Oh, I don't remember. Possibly two or three.
Q: Fid Mr. Davie meet Mr. Crowley?
A: I don't know. I think casually for a moment perhaps.
Q: Did Mr. Houghton?
A: Yes.
Q: Mr. Kilets?
A: Yes, Mr. Kilets met him also.
Q: Did not each individual stockholder and officer of the corporation, who had knowledge of this book—come to you personally and protest?
A: No.
Q: Did anyone come to you and protest?
A: There was some criticism, and we concluded that they came from certain bigots; that is, bigoted means on orthodox lines. The first instruction was to go ahead and push it regardless, but the criticism afterwards got under the skin of some of the people in professional lines, and they became frightened that they might lose some business because of this book having a frontispiece showing the Christian religion hanged to a gibbet [May Morn].
Q: Can you name one stockholder that recommended the sale of this book?
A: Yes, the majority of the stockholders.
Q: Name one?
A: Mr. Gibson.
Q: And another one?
A: Doctor Hill. Doctor Hill's signature is on some of the original contracts, if I remember correctly.
Q: Did Doctor Hill have an opportunity to examine the manuscript?
A: Yes. I think the manuscript was examined more by the other stockholders than it was by myself. My general knowledge of the literature caused me to pass upon it, without too much critical examination.
Q: Then you want to make it of record here that Doctor Hill recommended and urged the sale of The Equinox?
A: Yes.
Q: And what other officer or stockholder?
A: Explicitly or tacitly?
Q: I want you to explicitly name them?
A: Doctor Bowman.
Q: I show you something to revive your memory. You state that they urged the sale of The Equinox?
A: That is, the majority of the stockholders endorsed the sale.
Q: Well, I want the names. I am not content with that reply to the question.
A: Mr. Baal—John H. Baal. Mr. Blair, Mrs. Lumley, Mr. McCollester. Mrs. Walmsley, Mr. James, Mr. Pratt, Mr. Adair. Subsequent criticism was made by these various—
Q: Well, just a moment. Did these persona named come to you personally and say that The Equinox should be sold?
A: Why, they don't do business that way in the store.
Q: Well now, you have already testified that they urged the sale of this book?
A: I testified that they gave their consent, or took an active part in the sale.
Q: Gave their consent or took an active part in the sale?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, this is the preferred list, Mr. Ryerson, that you have seen? A Mr. Dewey, Mr. Frederick, Mr. MacNeil, Mrs. Wise?
A: And further I wish to state in this connection that a great number of those smaller stockholders are occultists—yes, sir—and tacitly gave their consent, or specifically doing so.
Q: The names that you just mentioned, Mr. Ryerson, of the preferred stockholders there—
A: Mr. Snyder also.
Q: —either consented to the sale of The Equinox or were instrumental in its sale?
A: Yes.
Q: You have said that you scanned over The Equinox and you thought it was a good occult book. Will you just scan here some of the pages and refer to those that you consider as good occult literature?
A: We are not passing on the merits or demerits of the book. It is the merchandising of a certain occult order. We simply decided that we would know any book that would be passed by the United States Government or stamp is good enough for any book store.
Q: You have testified that you scanned through the main parts. You are a skilled business man in the sale of books and their purchase. Now there must have been something in that book that led you to believe it was a good proposition. Now, I would like to have you point out some parts in there that you think would appeal to the cult.
A: There is some good poetry in there.
Q: Well, point out certain pages.
Mr. Wasey: I object to that question. Don't answer that, Mr. Ryerson. I object to the question because it is unfair to the witness.
Q: The picture May Morn, can you explain that, Mr. Ryerson? Just explain what it means.
Mr. Wasey: I object to that.
Q: He has already admitted about this picture.
Mr. Wasey: Yes, he said it was there. I object to the question, Mr. Ryerson. Don't answer it.
Mr. Morden: I just want to know whose picture that is?
A: Mr. Crowley's.
Mr. Morden: That is on page 196. I wish you would state the reason for your objection, Mr. Wasey, since he has already testified that he scanned through the book; that he had entered into a contract to the amount of $4,000 for the purchase. It is assumed he is a clever book man, still you object to having him explain the contents of the book.
Mr. Wasey: His explaining the contents of the book has nothing to do with this proceeding whatever. This in an inquiry into the affairs of the Universal Book Stores. The witness has so far said he has scanned the book. He is not a member of the cult. He know nothing about its particular philosophy, and is not qualified as an expert on its philosophy. The contents of the book have nothing to do with the particular bankruptcy matter of the Universal Book Stores. The question of what he thinks about some of the stuff in the book may mean or may not mean has not anything to do with this proceeding. It is entirely outside of this proceeding.
Mr. Morden: Well, I don't want you to think that I am getting extracts of this book into the record for any other reason than those directly interested in the bankruptcy proceeding, because I want to show that Mr. Ryerson, being a very intelligent man in the purchase of books—that this contract for the purchase of 1,000 volumes of that kind must have been done for some other motive than business reasons. It is not the purpose to encumber the record with statements from him. It is a question of fact whether or not a book of that kind is a business proposition.
Witness: There are none of the books in the book store purchased for any other purpose than for merchandising: to make money.
Mr. Morden: My intention is very clear, to show the purchase of the 1,000 volumes of a book of that kind, paying $2,000 for them; that the creditors of the Universal Book Stores are interested parties.
Mr. Wasey: Well, it would be in an ultra vires transaction, but that has nothing to do with this proceeding.
Mr. Morden: Well then, we will have to wait until the referee comes back. The book is in evidence.
Mr. Wasey: Well, I haven't any objection to that.
Book marked Exhibit 2, 12/23/21.
|