|
Re-Examination of
January 9, 1922
In the District Court of the United States For the Eastern District of Michigan Southern Division.
In the matter of Universal Book Stores, Bankrupt
In Bankruptcy. No. 4946.
Testimony taken before the Honorable George A. Marston, Referee in Bankruptcy, at Detroit, January 9th, A.D. 1922.
Examination of Albert W. Ryerson.
Appearances: Grover L. Morden, Attorney for the Trustees and Creditors.
Albert W. Ryerson, having been previously sworn, testifies as follows:
Examined by Mr. Morden.
Q: Mr. Ryerson, you were present at the last testimony taken during which Mr. William Gibson was a witness?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you hear his testimony?
A: I did.
Q: Did he give his consent to go to see Mr. Crowley?
A: He did indeed. He was very eager to do it.
Q: Was he with you at the Hotel Brevoort at the time you met?
A: He was.
Q: Who was present at the first meeting?
A: Mr. Jones [Charles Stansfeld Jones], a lady who was introduced as the wife of a British Vice-Consul, another lady who was some sort of lecturer in connection with some Russian movement or propaganda.
Q: Were plans discussed about the Universal Book Stores buying The Equinox?
A: They were.
Q: Did Mr. Gibson express any opinion, Mr. Ryerson?
A: He was very enthusiastic about buying all this literature of this new school; that is, new to this country, though it is not new to Europe.
Q: Do you recall him saying he stopped off at Baltimore on the way back?
A: Yes.
Q: Is it true that he stopped off at Baltimore for the reason that you did not have enough money to go ahead?
A: That is not true, because I had a personal checkbook and money in the bank, and there were funds in the bank that could have been obtained by draft, but it is true that we were running pretty close for money. I guess he had used up the last of the company's blank checks—he was the Treasurer and had all the funds and all the bills, and he did appeal to his sister in a letter, but we called there for the express purpose of getting his sister's assurance of putting in seven thousand dollars, which she had promised to give. It was on the strength of that that we had purchased in New York about four thousand dollars' worth of books for the store. I told Mr. Gibson that we should stop there, but it was not a complete stock run and he wanted to complete it, which would be $10,000, and on the strength of the fact that we were going to get the seven thousand dollars, we bought ten thousand dollars' worth of books, and they were on the way before we got home. And then we went to Baltimore, and the lady showed us that she was willing. Her husband had died; they had run a saloon, and they had property that they had sold, and she also had money in cash. She was coming to Detroit to live with a widowed sister. She assured us that the money would be put in. Then we went away, expecting her to arrive a little later. Then Gibson made demands upon me that I should give him my stock—half interest in the business to be paid for out of the business in the business was a success—and he made that proposition in the presence of Frank T. Lodge, in his office. In fact, he urged the matter, and I took it up with Mr. Lodge to have him consider it. And Mr. Lodge told him that what he was asking me was an unfair proposition, and he said he didn't care: that he was going to get half interest or he would get stock, and he would not put in the seven thousand dollars of his sister-in-law's money unless he did get the half interest, although he was getting one thousand dollars' worth of stock as a special commission on the transaction.
Q: Who gave him the thousand dollars' worth of stock, the corporation or you?
A: I don't remember just now. I think the records would fix—will show. Of course all stock, common stock, was mine.
Q: He was going to get one thousand dollars' worth?
A: Yes.
Q: He testified, I think the records will show, that he took or received from the Universal Book Stores some $840 in cash for seven weeks' work?
A: When we refused to give him this seven thousand dollars' worth of stock for his services, he made some threatening remarks and left the office indignant, and made diverse threatening remarks that he would wreck the business if he didn't get it and all that sort of thing. And then we had an appointment with Mr. Lodge, attorney, Dr. Hill, Mr. _____, and we arranged that we were to go on a week's vacation on an estate in the country that Dr. Hill had an interest in. We were to start at 6 o'clock the next morning, and we were to meet at the Boulevard and Woodward Avenue. Gibson was invited to come along, but after this talk in Mr. Lodge's office he never showed up the next morning. While we were gone, Gibson drew out of the bank all the funds and had certain other checks certified which covered other checks that had been issued previously but which had not been honored. And he charged this money all to himself calling it salary. And his wife, who was never an assistance but a constant nuisance because she couldn't even write the English language—she would have signs put up that were misspelled which would cause jokes and people to laugh at us—she was getting money to which she was not entitled. She had put into the business a certain odd lot of technical books on engineering processes, which we could have bought at a long price for $20.00, and, frankly, they were not worth five. Practically waste paper. But they had put them into the business at the full retail price, that is, what they would cost now. His purpose was to give the company 10% off selling price, and they were worthless—we could buy them for nothing. When he went out of the company, he took these books for the full amount without the allowance of 10% and they were not worth twenty dollars.
Q: Do you recall when he received the thousand dollars' worth of stock? Was it previous to the trip east or subsequent to it?
A: It was previous to the trip east, I am sure.
Q: You arrived in New York in the early part of October, didn't you Mr. Ryerson?
A: I think so. I don't know.
Q: I show you Exhibit 1 and ask you if that refreshes your memory?
A: Yes, that was a letter which was received in answer to an inquiry of—
Q: That was while you were still in New York, wasn't it?
A: Yes.
Q: Exhibit 1 is a letter written to Mr. Ryerson and dated October 2nd, 1918, in New York, by Aleister Crowley.
(Exhibit read by Mr. Morden)
Q: I show you Exhibit 2, Mr. Ryerson, and ask if you recall what it is.
A: It is a tentative agreement regarding a stock of books, the retail selling price of which would be about fifty thousand dollars, which was started in England. They were beautiful volumes on very fine vellum parchment, and they were really a splendid lot of literature which they agreed to place with the Universal Book Stores on consignment for sale, on certain terms.
Q: Was that agreement drawn in New York, Mr. Ryerson?
A: I think it was.
Q: It was? Well, how long did you stay in New York—this is dated the 7th of October 1918.
A: While we were down in New York because—
Q: Well, but how long—
A: There was no real contract entered into. There was a similar one ratified by Dr. Hill later. When we got to Detroit, it was to be taken up with the stockholders; but it was never ratified. Not that particular one, but one in connection with another contract, you know.
Q: Mr. Ryerson, I show you Exhibit 3 and ask you do you know what that is?
A: That represents a stock of books located with Sir G. Cowey [George MacNie Cowie] of England.
Q: What is the date of the letter, of Exhibit 3?
A: October 11th.
Q: And who sent the letter?
A: Mr. Crowley.
Q: To whom is it addressed?
A: To myself, personally, at Detroit, Michigan. I cannot reconcile these dates though, October 11th and 7th. It apparently must have been sent to Detroit, but I didn't know I was home at that time.
Q: I show you Exhibit 4 and ask you if you know what it is?
A: Yes. It is a letter from Mr. Crowley to the Universal Book Stores, directed to me personally, or rather to my attention.
Q: And the date?
A: October 23rd.
Q: In this exhibit 4 Mr. Ryerson, Mr. Crowley refers to the plates of Book 4 being ready for despatch. What book is that?
A: That is the book which would have sold The Equinox. It was a sort of supplementary work, a brochure which is the forerunner of the book. It is a sort of circular to advertise the book itself, and those were sold for a nominal sum, and, as a result, subsequent sales for the other book were to be made.
Q: I will read the last paragraph of Mr. Crowley's letter.
Mr. Morden reads the last paragraph)
Q: Had you had some conversation with Mr. Crowley with reference to the _____ and _____, or was this a letter you had written him that he refers to?
A: I don't remember, it must—I should think likely there was a letter, although we had a general conversation.
Q: I show you Exhibit 5 and ask you what that is.
A: A letter dated October 30th to Mr. Ryerson care of the Universal Book Stores.
Q: What is the salutation?
A: Crowley always uses that when writing.
Q: Read it.
A: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
Q: I mean the other, the salutation.
A: Oh, "Dear Brother Ryerson." This term "brother" refers to our Masonic connections only, and has nothing whatever to do with the other matter. We are both Masons.
Q: The letter was written by Aleister Crowley?
A: Yes.
Q: To you, dated October 30th?
A: Yes.
Q: From New York?
A: Yes.
Q: This letter you have in your hand, Exhibit 5?
A: Yes.
Q: On the second page of this letter: "As a result of this," speaking of the ten volumes of The Equinox that Mr. Jones had, "I came into a consultation with a man who is teaching a school here, and he suggested arranging a regular curriculum. Besides the general reading courses with diplomas and all the rest of the humbug." What does he refer to there if you recall?
A: I don't remember. He was quite loquacious, and though this was a matter of business, there was a lot of verbiage in most of the letters that we didn't pay much attention to. It was a bit of his facetiousness.
Q: Was he referring to the O.T.O. and A∴A∴, as he calls it?
A: I think most to the A∴A∴—it might have been some of his societies. The curriculum to which he refers is published in The Equinox. It is the standard literature of the day of the Vedantic philosophy. The philosophy of the school that Crowley refers to is a combination of the Pythagorean and the Vedantic. Out of the early Pythagorean, you have the Christian Science Church of today, which is nothing more than a compromise; and out of the Vedantic, you have the present-day Unitarian Church and most of the philosophies following the present trend of thought.
Q: In this letter of October 30th, Exhibit 5, he says, "I will enclose a rough copy of the first draft of the curriculum for your perusal." Is Exhibit 6 a rough draft, of which he speaks?
A: This does not refer to that. It seems to be a reference to some other matter. I can't quite make it out.
Q: Yes, all right, I couldn't make it out myself. Have you the contract in your files, the first contract with Crowley?
A: I unfortunately left my file home. We have a draft of it, I think.
Q: Who signed the first contract?
A: The first was drawn up in Frank T. Lodge's office by him, and Mr. Crowley signed it and left immediately to catch the Limited for New York. It was to be discussed and signed by the members of the corporation thereafter. And in the contract was a clause whereby the monies received were to be paid into a separate fund and deposited in the hands of Mr. Jones, to be paid (the monies received from the sale of these books, of course), and to be paid for, and for that specific purpose to be kept separate from the other funds of the book store. Dr. Hill objected to that particular clause because he did not see how that we, as a corporation, should put the funds in the hands of Mr. Jones. So that contract was never signed, and another was drawn, I think, by Dr. Hill's suggestion in Clarence Hill's office.
Q: Clarence Hill, the Attorney?
A: Yes. With new terms and conditions, and Dr. Hill was so indignant at Lodge for inserting the clause about Mr. Jones that he didn't want him to draw another contract, so he suggested seeing Clarence Hill, and that contract, I think, afterwards, was signed by Dr. Hill, and the check furnished by him for the first payment.
Q: Then from my understanding of it, Dr. Hill and Mr. Crowley were on good terms for a while, and then something arose that called ill feeling. Can you explain what that was?
A: Yes. May I go back a bit and take a minute of your time.
Q: Yes.
A: I will tell you the facts of how I became interested in this philosophy, and why I, a married man, am interested in it at all. My early days were spent in old Concord, Massachusetts. I was raised in a home adjoining that of Ralph Emerson, and such men as he and Hawthorne were friends of my family. They and many other noted people attended a school of philosophy adjoining my father's estate. I remember that there were many times when I drove to the railroad station in a little cart, to get Julia Warde Howe from the station to take her to this school of philosophy, where the law of life was taught. Why, it was my father who took the wild grape and the Isabella together, the male and the female, and they formed the present Concord grape. Father introduced them: there was no engagement, they were married—he married them—and I assume the Concord grape must have been a love grape. This school of philosophy is the same that Thoreau and all those people believed in, where they delved into the finest things of nature. It was in that atmosphere that I was reared and that atmosphere surrounded me and which in a measure determined or directed my life. And many of these fine people, because of the libelous press, have to go into hiding to think and talk out these finer things, which give great truths to the world. Of course, in such an atmosphere there were so-called "love cults," but in this school there were people of high ideals. It was after I got away from Concord and engaged in the book stores that—
Q: By the way, Mr. Ryerson, didn't you have some time getting away from Boston?
A: No. I was traveling; I had been through every city in the Union—Oh, I get your point. Yes, I have been back since, and wish I were there now. At any rate, we came here and we formed the Cosmos Club, at least I joined it. It contained men like Frank Lodge—and by the way, that was all started by a practical joke of Mr. Pratt in the bookstore. One day, some gentleman and a lady were discussing the philosophy of these things, and the result of the discussion was that she got jealous. She was a lady who, because of her orthodox proclivities, was not welcome in our circles. That was the reason. Well anyway, then Mr. Jones came on to Detroit representing A. E. Duncan, public accountants. But after he had arrived and shown us orders for The Equinox, and shown where he could market a great many of these books, and we had orders I think for about 200 copies tat we had, we thought it would be a good idea to employ him as bookkeeper, which we did. We had these orders from the O.T.O., that is the European branches of it, and the Mexican, Canadian—orders from all over the world for these books, amounting to about 200 copies. I said I thought we could conservatively handle 500 copies; that would cost us $3.80 each, I think. We found out afterwards, after the type was set up, that fifteen hundred more could be had so that they would not cost us more than $2.20 each, but I hesitated. We called a meeting. Jones said we were going to establish a branch of the O.T.O. here. He thought he would try and make the headquarters here inasmuch as we were handling some of their literature. So Jones (and Crowley subsequently) came on, and they met in a certain attorney's office and discussed the feasibility of establishing a chapter of the O.T.O. here.
Q: May I ask about what time?
A: It was around November.
Q: 1918?
A: I think so. Mr. Jones had shown us some very wonderful philosophies pertaining to the school. In connection with what we formerly—
Q: Well now, Mr. Ryerson, let's not aside from the point and take all this time. I'm trying to find out what caused the rupture between Dr. Hill and Mr. Crowley.
A: Yes, all right. We got together with the idea of forming a chapter here. There were seven men, and there was no reason why there should not be one, but because of this mess that the papers have been trying to make out of it, I am not going to give the names of the seven people, to have them suffer as I have. Well, they agreed to form a chapter here conditional upon certain phases of the ritual being changed. Certain names did not appeal to them because of their conflict with other doctrines, so the consequence was they would not consent to the chapter being finally formed until the ritual would be changed. A few days later, a Supreme Grand Council got together at the D.A.C. [Detroit Athletic Club], and I think then it was formed, tentatively, if the ritual be re-written and if drafted and accepted. This is what started the rupture between Dr. Hill and Mr. Crowley. Dr. Hill was not invited nor was I, to that meeting at the D.A.C. The Supreme Grand Council was started, and it was charged they wanted to be "the whole cheese" and they didn't want us; and the consequence was that we were not invited to the Grand Council. Dr. Hill was very indignant about it. He had said he wanted to order two thousand copies of the book, and it as on his recommendation that we ordered that amount of books.
Q: Will you produce a letter to that effect?
A: Yes. Two thousand copies were ordered on his recommendation, and then because we were not invited to the Supreme Grand Council, and because of the Book Stores' officers [not] being a part of it, Dr. Hill took great exception and thought that inasmuch as we were going to market the literature of the Order, someone of us ought to be represented, and he made some very terse comments about it and Crowley in the store here. And the result of it all was that Dr. Hill said, "Well, we won't handle your books," and he then tried to cancel the order, and made a mess of it generally, and that started the fuss between them. And Crowley went to New York and wrote back some very uncomplimentary remarks about Dr. Hill, and Dr. Hill got hold of it and "went up in the air," and that started it. That Supreme Grand Council, and everything connected with it, stopped right there. It never went any further and there was never any organization, and so far as I know, no one was ever initiated in it, and it never started. Jones will confirm that.
Q: This was in November you speak of?
A: I think so. It was shortly after I was in New York.
Q: I show you Exhibit 7, Mr. Ryerson, and ask you what it is.
A: Why, this is a letter dated December 6th from Mr. Crowley to me, care of the Universal Book Stores, discussing terms.
Q: Addressed to you?
A: Yes.
Q: Where is the Chiswick Press, Mr. Ryerson, is that in England?
A: Yes.
Q: I show you Exhibit 8 and ask you what it is.
A: That is a letter from Mr. Crowley directed to me personally regarding some books at the Chiswick Press, dated January 3rd.
Q: I show you Exhibit 9 and ask you what it is.
A: A letter from Mr. Crowley to me, January 13th.
Q: I show you Exhibit 10 and ask you what that is, Mr. Ryerson.
A: Mr. Crowley was opposed to Dr. Hill and he addressed the letters to me personally so as not to come into Dr. Hill's hands. He always did, from the beginning.
Q: From the time of this fuss with Dr. Hill, every letter was addressed to you?
(No answer.)
Q: I show you Exhibit 11 and ask you what it is.
A: A letter directed to Mr. Woodruff—to A. W. Ryerson.
Q: Just what is it?
A: A letter from Crowley.
Q: The date?
A: February 19th.
Q: There was constant communication, written communication, between you and Crowley over this library in England, was there not?
A: Yes, That was a very valuable asset. It was about quite a lot of books to be sold on consignment, which would have made the stores a great deal of money.
Q: I show you Exhibit 12 and ask you if you know what that is.
A: Yes. A letter dated February 27th, directed to me personally, from Crowley.
Q: In this letter Mr. Crowley says, "With regard to The Equinox, will it suit you to have 500 dollars deposited to the credit of the Order of the Ordo Templi Orientis in New York City"—(Mr. Morden reads from letter). That was the check which Dr. Hill was to sign to send to Crowley. I show you Exhibit 13 and ask you what it is.
A: A letter dated March 1st from Mr. Crowley.
Q: To yourself?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know of your own knowledge whether Mr. Crowley had any money of his own at that time?
A: That is difficult to determine. He apparently had no money, but I have learned since that he is well-fixed but he adopted that attitude of having no money.
Q: Did you know that Mr. Crowley and Sylvester Viereck [George Sylvester Viereck], publisher of the Vaterland, previous to the entry of the United States into the War, were personal friends?
A: Mr. Crowley was the accredited agent of the British Government in the employ of the Secret Service Department. That was one of the reasons why it was always so difficult to get in touch with him. German spies were continually after him, and he would never allow anyone to see him unless he first knew who they were. I think he played a very slick trick on the Germans, the Vaterland, by reason of his superior journalism. He was able to ingratiate himself with the publishers, and when the work was done for the British Government, which practically destroyed the publication, he returned home. It was quite an achievement to have himself, a British spy, considered favorably by this publication.
Q: Did he write for the Vaterland? A: I don't know the details, except that I have heard him state that they had smashed their own paper by having him, a Britisher, connected with it, as a spy, without their knowledge of it.
Q: Later the Vaterland was changed to Viereck's Weekly was it not?
A: I don't know.
Q: Oh, you don't know anything about that?
A: No.
Q: I show you Exhibit 14 which is a copy of a letter written to Aleister Crowley, New York, dated March 4th, and ask you if that is your letter.
A: Yes. Or by Mr. Jones.
Q: The most of the letter writing at that time was done by Jones at your instructions was it not?
A: Not necessarily at my instructions. Jones had complete charge of the matters pertaining to The Equinox up to the point where we lost control of the business, then it passed into the hands of other people.
Q: It was quite common for you to dictate letters to Jones?
A: No. Jones is very capable, and if anything was ever said at all, it would be a suggestion, and he would write his own letters.
Q: Well, I ask you if you recall this Exhibit 14?
A: This expressions, "Do what then wilt shall be the whole of the Law," means find the consciousness and then obey it—
Q: That's not what I'm trying to get at.
A: Yes—well, Dr. Hill and I had a directors' meeting and agreed that there would be some opposition to the work, and he was very indignant—
Q: Mr. Ryerson, I just want to know if you remember writing or dictating this letter?
A: It sounds very much as if I had written it, though it is not initialed.
Q: I show you now Exhibit 15.
(Mr. Morden here reads Exhibit 15)
Q: Did you take care personally of sending or taking care of the orders for The Equinox as they came in?
A: No. Mr. Jones did that. And Mr. Ruse, who was an unwelcome representative of D. M. Woodruff and Company.
Q: I asked you what Exhibit 15 was. Did you answer that question?
A: That is a letter; a facetious letter which he wrote to me March 6, 1919.
Q: Mr. Ryerson, this letter dated March 6th says, "I acknowledge receipt of your contract of October 7th between yourself and me."
A: Yourself and me?
Q: Yes. Now is that contract I showed you—that was dated October 7th, marked Exhibit 2—is that the contract he refers to?
A: I don't remember. I believe there were some alterations made upon the advice of attorneys and consulting with the board of directors, and whether this is the time I don't know.
Q: Did you and Dr. Hill have any secret understanding with reference to these books?
A: There was nothing secret. It was the company's business proposition.
Q: How did you come to market the books? The Equinox?
A: Well, just what orders we had from Europe. And then Jones wrote all the secretaries of the various chapters throughout the world and obtained orders for some, and then Jones started to write some letters and attempted to publish a little pamphlet, being a preliminary booklet. And attempted to publish a little pamphlet, being a preliminary booklet. And then, financial difficulties coming up, I was not permitted to carry out my original plan. If I had been, this book would have been marketed and we would have had a lot of money out of it. But other people came in and took the reins out of my hands. Mr. Jones also conducted lectures in various halls and discussed the book, and some orders were obtained that way; and I think some of these circulars were gotten out by him.
Q: Do you know J. W. Robertson of the Macoy Publishing Co.?
A: Yes.
Q: He is an expert on books, is he?
A: Well, I don't call him that; they deal largely in occult and masonic books.
Q: They are a solvent concern?
A: I believe so.
Q: Do you know are they a large concern?
A: They are the recognized distributors of masonic literature, I believe, throughout the country. Brentano's in New York gave The Equinox a very nice display and they sent us some money for the sale of it afterwards.
Q: I show you Exhibit 16 and ask you what it is.
A: That is a letter from the Macoy Publishing Company to the Universal Book Stores, attention, Mr. Ryerson, signed by Mr. Robertson, dated March 12th, 1919.
Q: The first paragraph refers to The Equinox and the second paragraph says, well, we will read the whole letter.
(Mr. Morden reads letter)
Q: I show you Exhibit 17 and ask you what it is?
A: That is a letter to the Universal Book Stores from the Publisher of "Journal __________."
Q: Who is the Editor?
A: J. W. Norwood.
(Mr. Morden reads letter)
Q: I show you Exhibit 18 Mr. Ryerson. If this is not an answer to a letter addressed to you, Exhibit 16, then it is a letter written by Mr. Jones in answer to it, isn't it?
A: No.
Q: This is not your letter, you are sure?
A: Yes. Jones was instructed to answer these particular questions with reference to the O.T.O.
Q: This man Robertson thinks considerable of you as a writer and as a writer and a philosopher, does he not?
A: I don't know what his personal opinion is.
Q: I mean in this letter?
A: I don't know. Apparently so.
Q: Well, didn't these questions propounded in a letter from a publishing house so well-known as the McCoy Publishing Company put you on your guard as to what kind of literature you were getting into?
A: No, because Mr. Robertson is speaking in a facetious tone throughout the letter and he, like many others, had read the book, without interpreting it correctly.
Q: You still, at that time, thought that this book was all right: a good, salable proposition?
A: Under the circumstances under which we had organized it. And if I had been able to carry out my plans in their original form, the book would have sold.
Q: This was in March? You state that plans were made in March 1918, or rather a meeting was held in March 1918 at which these seven men here in this city were present to discuss matters with reference to the adoption of this O.T.O., or the membership of the chapter or whatever you call it. Are you sure of the month?
A: No, I am not.
Q: Do you know whether the Universal Book Stores had dealing with the O.T.O. here in the city?
A: The members of—These people who were at that meeting were acquainted with the Book Stores and other members were stock holders in the Book Stores. Whatever was done about The Equinox had to be ratified and at least tentatively drafted by them before we would have gone ahead and done anything such as contracts or anything.
Q: You mean drafted by the O.T.O.
A: I mean by Courtney(?) the gentleman who they thought would form a chapter.
Q: Does it not appear on the books of the Universal Book Stores that a certain man was Treasurer of the O.T.O. as late as March 1919?
A: I don't know. After this fiasco of Dr. Hill's and myself—
Q: You had lost control, was that it?
A: I mean after this fuss about not being invited into the O.T.O., I never attended one of Jones' meetings and never had anything to do with any subsequent action. If there was any taken at all, I don't know about it.
Q: If I show you checks for payment of accounts in your own handwriting, you would recall then, would you not?
A: Accounts of what?
Q: O.T.O. expenses.
A: Well, I suppose if you could show me such evidence, of course I would have to admit it. If you could show where I was interested.
Q: No, I'm not asking you about the personal interest you may have had, I am asking you about the corporation.
A: I should want to see the checks to find out first. They might be for something entirely different.
Q: Well, they are listed in your books.
A: Mr. Jones was the bookkeeper and he was the head of the O.T.O.
Q: No, it was the Universal Book Stores' books. I show you Exhibit 19, which is account number 120 in the general ledger, and ask you what it is.
A: I don't know what these items refer to. This is an account, evidently in Jones' handwriting: Ordo Templi Orientis, Dr. Frank Bowman, Treasurer. I didn't know that the thing had gotten that far.
Q: Well, Mr. Ryerson. did you pay this account without investigating what you were paying?
A: Well, if they were just debts, I suppose we would pay them. Mr. Crowley was the O.T.O. and anything that had to do with our transaction with Crowley on his order for the O.T.O.—
Q: But that was not entered on the O.T.O. books. It was entered on the books of the Universal Book Stores.
A: Now what does this item represent?
Q: I don't know myself; I'm trying to find that out from you. Here are the payments, both signatures on some of them. Here is one of your signatures.
A: I think this was for circulars printed; the circulars to advertise—
Q: You know better than that. You know that D. L. Reed and Company are very high-class engravers.
A: I know. But Mr. Jones is a very high-class, aesthetic gentleman in getting out such things.
Q: You don't know then, you are just guessing?
A: It had something to do with printed matter in connection with the sale of The Equinox.
Q: You cannot say it was The Equinox; it says O.T.O. on your ledger.
A: Well, it concerns that transaction or something that was done—
Q: In other words, the O.T.O.—Some disbursements were made by the Universal Book Stores to the credit of the O.T.O., which had a chapter here in the city of Detroit. Now isn't that right?
A: There was a tentative organization formed which never went any further.
Q: So far as you know. But you have already stated that in March it dispersed.
A: No, I said it never went any further than these two meetings.
Q: These items ran into March—
A: I know, but there was never any action, as far as initiation or propaganda for membership, so far as I know. But I don't know what these items refer to, and I would have no reason to deny it.
Q: You had charge of the Universal Book Stores at that time, in March?
A: I am speaking as a general way, and have been, all through the examination as a general statement for the corporation. But I have been made the goat for everything, things over which I had no control except a nominal one. I can ascertain what these are for. You can find out from Jones.
Q: What is Jones' address, will he come down and testify? Do you care to tell me his address?
A: Yes, I know of no reason why I should not. It is P.O. Box 141, Chicago, Illinois.
Q: Who is Mr. Lazenby [Charles Lazenby]?
A: He may be in town now; he has been here for the last four weeks. He is an eminent Theosophist and lecturer. He left here three years ago and has just returned, and has been holding lectures at the Fellowcraft Club Hall.
Q: Who is H. Carrington [Hereward Carrington]?
A: He is an author and editor of some note.
Q: He is the editor of Modern Psycophenomena?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you know John Lenmore? In Ann Arbor? Do you recall having sent orders to him yourself?
A: No, I have not. We had some dealings with the man.
Q: I show you Exhibit 20, Mr. Ryerson. Is this your letter?
A: No, this is Mr. Jones'. He is always perfunct in his elaboration as a philosopher.
Q: I show you Exhibit 21. This is a letter apparently written by Mr. Jones in which he states that you authorized him to write it. Did you?
A: Why, apparently. Mr. Jones is truthful, and I presume if he says I instructed him to write it, I did.
(Mr. Morden reads Exhibit 21.)
Q: I now show you Exhibit 22. Apparently, this is your letter that you referred to about making a report. So that latter was written by you, or under your orders? This is an answer I mean that couples up Exhibit 21 in which he says, "Mr. Ryerson will write you personally."
A: There may be something, but I think this is the one.
Q: I will read Exhibit 22.
(Mr. Morden reads Exhibit 22)
Statement made by attorney that it would not be fair to read or accept further exhibits until a missing letter could be produced, which would throw some light on it, and Mr. Morden agreed. Examination was adjourned.
|