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Testimony Continued January 27, 1922
In the District Court of the United States For the Eastern District of Michigan Southern Division.
In the matter of Universal Book Stores, Inc. Bankrupt
In Bankruptcy. No. 4946.
Before Referee King, January 27, 1922.
Appearances: Grover Morden for the Trustee. Mr. Wasey for the Bankrupt.
Mrs. Bertha B. Ryerson [Bertha Bruce], being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Examined by Mr. Morden.
Q: What is your full name?
A: Bertha B. Ryerson.
Q: You are the wife of Albert W. Ryerson?
A: Didn't I give my name as Ryerson?
Q: Just answer the question. It's for the purpose of the record.
A: I have answered the question.
The Court: Just answer the question.
A: Yes.
Q: When were you married?
A: Is that pertaining to the business?
Mr. Wasey: That's alright, Mrs. Ryerson.
A: A while back, I don't remember.
Q: Approximately what time?
A: A couple of years.
Q: Whom were you married by?
The Court: I don't think—
Me. Morden: It's arriving at a date because there were several entries in the book, just for that purpose.
A: I don't remember.
The Court: Establish the date. That question isn't at all material.
Mr. Morden: The witness doesn't know the date. Perhaps I could arrive at it by the party who performed the ceremony.
The Court: Can't you give the date fairly approximately?
A: I don't remember.
The Court: It will save time.
A: I answered as best I could: a couple of years ago.
Mr. Wasey: Mr. Ryerson says he thinks it was December 31, 1919.
The Court: Is that about the time.
A: I recall it was sometime during the winter.
Q: Of 1919?
A: I don't remember.
The Court: Please don't take up our time. You must know. I am not disposed to be unkind at all, but this isn't helping matters at all. You must know, and I insist on your answering the question as nearly as you can.
A: I did the best I could.
The Court: You don't mean to tell me in two years you can't remember the date of your marriage? We all know better than that.
A: Mr. Ryerson just now said it was December 31st.
The Court: Is that correct?
A: I think it could be correct.
The Court: Please tell us, and we will leave the subject.
A: Well, I don't remember. I am sorry.
Mr. Wasey: Is that date approximately correct? Was it close to that date?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Where was your husband during the year of 1919?
Mr. Wasey: I object to that
The Court: It's impossible for me to tell whether it's material.
Mr. Morden: I will show the materiality.
The Court: On a promise to connect it up, you may answer.
Q. Did you live on the Boulevard in 1919, Mrs. Ryerson?
A: I don't remember whether it was in 1919. Possibly I was living at the Madison Hotel at that time.
Q: Did you own a home on the Boulevard at that time?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What year was that?
A: I don't know.
Q: Where was this home on the boulevard?
A: 381 West Grand Blvd.
Q: Do you know Mr. Jones [Charles Stansfeld Jones]?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: You knew Mr. Crowley?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Wasn't it the year of 1919 that Mr. Crowley was here?
A: I don't know, but the record will show.
Mr. Morden: Your Honor, I want to be fair in this matter.
Mr. Wasey: I can't see any possible connection with where she lived in 1919.
Mr. Morden: To show on the books when the money was paid, unless the witness will show where she was living.
Mr. Wasey: What difference does it make when the money was paid?
Mr. Morden: She may not own the home now, or she may not own it then.
The Court: Answer the question as nearly as you can Mrs. Ryerson.
Q: In the month of September 1918, did you live at 381 W. Grand Boulevard?
A: Well. if I would say yes, then maybe I would have the date wrong.
Q: Did you live there in August 1919?
A: Well, I reckon so.
Q: In October 1919, did you have some financial transactions with Mr. Crowley with reference to certain notes?
A: I don't remember the date. I had certain transactions.
Q: I show you one of these notes and ask if that refreshes your recollection.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What's the date.
A: May 15, 1920.
Q: The top date?
A: October 18, 1919.
Q: Was Mr. Crowley a guest at your home at that time?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: You purchased notes from Mr. Crowley—a series of notes from Mr. Crowley—in which they were payable to Mr. Crowley and the maker was the Universal Book Store?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: How many notes did you buy?
A: I think I bought nine.
Q: You paid him for these notes?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did you know what these notes were for?
A: I knew they were for some books.
Q: What books?
A: I didn't know.
Q: You weren't familiar for what his notes were given to the Universal Book Stores?
A: No, sir.
Q: How long had you known Mr. Crowley?
A: Two or three days.
Q: You weren't married to Mr. Ryerson at that time?
A: No, sir.
Q: Mr. Crowley came to you and asked you to buy these notes?
A: He was a guest in the home, and I overheard the conversation that hw would like to sell them and I told him I might possibly consider the deal, and I thought it over for two or three days and thought it would be alright.
Q: Did Mr. Ryerson suggest that you buy the notes?
A: No, I was the first one that suggested it.
Q: This was after three days knowing him?
A: Just a few days.
Q: How long had you known him?
A: Well, I guess only a few days.
Q: Not more than a week?
A: No, I don't think so.
Q: This was the first time that week that you had ever met Mr. Crowley, was it?
A: No, he was a guest in the home for two or three days before then.
Q: You had known him about a week?
A: I should judge so.
Q: You invested—How much money did you pay for the notes?
A: $950. It was $1000 worth of notes. I made a bonus of $50.
Q: You have been paid $950 by the Universal Book Sores?
A: Yes, sir. I was paid each month.
Q: Was this your own home at 381 W. Grand Boulevard.
A: Yes, sir.
Q: You later had other transactions with the Universal Book Stores involving some notes?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: I will show you this paper to refresh your memory. What date?
A: This says September 7th.
Q: Is that correct?
A: Possibly, it could be correct.
Q: I am asking you whether it is correct?
A: It must be, because there is the proof.
Q: Would you remember this outside of having this shown to you?
A: Yes, sir. I remember at various times I loaned money.
Q: These notes, Mrs. Ryerson, show 31 notes involving $1,550. Did you loan $1,550?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Who did you give the money to?
A: Mrs. Lumley and Mr. Pratt and Mr. Ryerson.
Q: These notes were all made on the same day were they not?
A: No, sir.
Q: Just look at the notes, the day on which they were made. Were they not all made on September 7th?
A: I don't know as to the date. I remember one evening in the bookstore Mr. Ryerson was talking it over with Mr. Pratt and Mrs. Lumley, and I produced the money.
Q: Who did you pay the money to?
A: I think to Mrs. Lumley and Mr. Ryerson.
Q: You mean you split the money up and gave part to Mrs. Lumley and part to Mr. Ryerson?
A: No,, both combined.
Q: Did you give a check?
A: No, sir, because I had cash, and my account at the time was a savings account.
[ . . . ]
Mr. Morden: That is all.
Mr. Wasey: I have no questions.
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